What to offer for Trout

mmassmedia  5/5/2014 6:31 PM

12 team roto yahoo pro league

I am in trade discussions  with the trout owner. Thinking Votto plus one or two

Just landed Beltran for Heyward as well got Bumgardner and Arenado for Uehara, G.Richards and H.Kendrick

Would like to land Trout if it worth it.

12 Teams | 12 Hitters Per Team [5 Active = HR RBI SB R BA] | 11 Pitchers Per Team [5 Active = W SV ERA WHIP SO]

Round	Rank	Value	Name	Injury	Team	Pos	g	News	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	BA	HR	SB	HRV	RBIV	SBV	RV	BAV
2	13	0.72	Choo, Shin-Soo		TEX	OF	122		473	84	139	52	81	106	0.293	15	14	0.11	-0.25	0.40	2.30	1.06
2	16	0.70	Votto, Joey		CIN	1B	124		442	83	130	57	99	100	0.293	19	5	0.69	0.09	-0.49	2.25	0.99
3	26	0.52	Beltran, Carlos		NYY	OF	119		462	65	130	75	38	78	0.282	20	2	0.86	1.53	-0.76	0.60	0.37
3	32	0.40	Carpenter, Matt		STL	2B/3B	124		508	81	155	51	62	90	0.306	8	3	-1.02	-0.36	-0.69	2.08	1.97
4	43	0.23	Rizzo, Anthony		CHC	1B	126		468	66	123	63	56	93	0.263	22	5	1.27	0.58	-0.53	0.63	-0.79
4	45	0.23	Andrus, Elvis		TEX	SS	124		504	66	143	52	41	77	0.284	5	30	-1.67	-0.26	1.86	0.69	0.53
5	51	0.13	Belt, Brandon		SF	1B	115		424	58	122	62	47	105	0.288	15	5	-0.02	0.52	-0.46	-0.05	0.67
7	73	-0.15	Machado, Manny		BAL	3B	120		488	65	132	53	28	86	0.271	12	5	-0.37	-0.21	-0.46	0.61	-0.31
8	85	-0.22	Revere, Ben		PHI	OF	112		478	55	142	30	24	56	0.297	0	34	-2.42	-2.00	2.31	-0.32	1.32
10	119	-0.47	Arenado, Nolan		COL	3B	110		405	48	115	50	21	58	0.285	11	2	-0.66	-0.40	-0.80	-0.96	0.48
11	132	-0.62	Gardner, Brett		NYY	OF	121		391	42	105	42	40	86	0.270	5	24	-1.54	-1.04	1.33	-1.53	-0.30
14	161	-0.86	Ramos, Wilson		WAS	C	96		311	37	84	44	24	53	0.269	13	1	-0.22	-0.90	-0.88	-2.01	-0.28
20	238	-1.50	Flowers, Tyler		CHW	C	83		243	30	55	30	23	90	0.227	12	1	-0.52	-2.00	-0.86	-2.58	-1.55
Round	Rank	Value	Name	Injury	Team	Pos	g	News	AB	R	H	RBI	BB	K	BA	HR	SB	HRV	RBIV	SBV	RV	BAV
		-0.88	Avg Stats/Total Values				1496		5,596	780	1,576	661	585	1,080	0.282	157	131	-5.51	-4.71	-0.04	1.71	4.17
		0.60	Avg Stats/Total Values (active)				1279		4,895	702	1,387	575	521	941	0.283	139	106	-3.75	-2.76	-0.49	5.25	4.74

Round	Rank	Value	Name	Injury	Team	Pos	g	News	IP	H	RA	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA	W	SV	WHIP	WV	SVV	ERAV	WHIPV	SOV
1	1	1.58	Kershaw, Clayton		LAD	SP	25		171.3	137	56	52	44	173	12	2.71	13	0	1.06	1.34	-0.57	2.79	2.75	1.59
1	4	1.23	Lee, Cliff		PHI	SP	25		179.1	167	64	59	29	173	19	2.95	12	0	1.09	1.02	-0.57	1.93	2.18	1.57
1	8	1.02	Bumgarner, Madison		SF	SP	26		168.0	141	62	57	47	164	15	3.04	12	0	1.12	1.23	-0.57	1.47	1.62	1.36
3	29	0.28	Nathan, Joe		DET	RP	59		57.1	46	21	20	18	62	5	3.08	3	34	1.11	-1.33	2.74	0.45	0.59	-1.04
3	32	0.24	Perkins, Glen		MIN	RP	51		50.6	38	17	16	14	58	5	2.78	3	26	1.02	-1.44	1.99	0.74	1.01	-1.12
4	38	0.18	Ryu, Hyun-Jin		LAD	SP	23		149.1	138	61	56	41	119	13	3.37	11	0	1.20	0.77	-0.57	0.18	0.22	0.32
4	44	0.11	Estrada, Marco		MIL	SP	22		129.3	117	56	51	32	122	17	3.56	10	0	1.16	0.43	-0.57	-0.40	0.72	0.39
4	46	0.10	Wood, Alex		ATL	SP/RP	20		127.9	115	50	46	43	121	11	3.22	9	0	1.23	0.41	-0.57	0.59	-0.28	0.36
7	74	-0.22	Rodriguez, Francisco		MIL	RP	53		51.1	46	21	19	18	57	6	3.41	3	22	1.25	-1.32	1.55	0.01	-0.18	-1.15
9	102	-0.38	Smith, Joe		LAA	RP	56		52.3	46	21	19	19	44	3	3.34	4	14	1.24	-1.16	0.81	0.10	-0.18	-1.46
Round	Rank	Value	Name	Injury	Team	Pos	g	News	IP	H	RA	ER	BB	SO	HR	ERA	W	SV	WHIP	WV	SVV	ERAV	WHIPV	SOV
		4.16	Avg Stats/Total Values				359		1,135.8	991	428	393	303	1,092	106	3.12	80	96	1.14	-0.04	3.68	7.85	8.46	0.83

mbuser   5/5/2014 6:42 PM

Exactly how far have the discussions gone so far?

mmassmedia  5/5/2014 7:05 PM

He liked and offer of Votto, Heyward, Uehara for Trout....well the offer was larger but he said he didn't want to give up Bruce(preinjury) and Didn't have interest in Kendrick and Gardner.

I have since traded Heyward and Uehara.

If my understand is correct Trout would be like Durant in Basketball and almost worth a 1st and a 2nd. I obv would like to try to get better value than just giving away that type of trade. I like the fact that I have 4 closer and would like to stay that way for a bit until I get saves under control. If I needed to I could move a closer which would be to his liking. Kind of like the fact that I now have Kershaw, Lee, Bumgarder, as my top 3 pithcing and being a braves fan like have Wood. Nothing is untouchable if it makes my team better though.

descender  5/6/2014 10:01 AM

"would be like Durant in Basketball" This would apply if you were in a H2H league... not so much in Roto.  Your HR/RBI values are so low that Trout alone won't fix them either.  Roto is about balance.

I personally think you should trade one of your 3 stud pitchers (maybe + a closer) for 2 power bats.  Something to get Gardner/Revere out of your lineup on a regular basis.  I'd have a backup SS instead of a backup C until andrus starts hitting too :)

mbuser   5/6/2014 12:21 PM

Why is it that you feel the Trout/Durant types are more valuable in h2h than roto?

Agreed that trading from strength (SP) is the best route, and try to include Revere in the deal, since he's the largest negative on HR/RBI cats.

mmassmedia  5/6/2014 2:12 PM

This was one of my 1st drafts this year with the the punt HR and RBI strategy is why it looks as such.

Ramos is sitting on the DL spot and as soon as he is  active he will be my catcher dropping the other. Which still doesn't create roster space. but when the 2nd of the two trades goes through tonight, I will have one roster spot.

mmassmedia  5/6/2014 7:40 PM

Most recent email looks like he would take an offer involving Votto and Choo.....?

ken_admin  5/6/2014 9:52 PM

How does it look in the trade analyzer, if you put Trout with a free agent (maybe a 1B) vs. Votto/Choo? Unless your league is deep, I imagine the person getting Trout comes out ahead.

mmassmedia  5/6/2014 11:15 PM

Own Round Rank Value PosV Name Injury Status Team Pos g News AB R H RBI BB K BA HR SB HRV RBIV SBV RV BAV IP H RA ER BB SO HR ERA W SV WHIP WV SVV ERAV WHIPV SOV 1 3 1.61 1.24 Kershaw, Clayton LAD SP 24 168.7 135 55 51 43 171 12 2.71 13 0 1.06 1.05 -0.52 3.15 3.02 1.32 1 5 1.22 0.85 Lee, Cliff PHI SP 25 176.4 165 63 58 28 170 19 2.95 11 0 1.09 0.70 -0.52 2.25 2.42 1.23 3 35 0.53 0.32 Choo, Shin-Soo TEX OF 121 469 83 137 52 80 106 0.293 15 14 -0.24 -0.73 0.31 2.30 1.03 4 44 0.46 0.82 Wood, Alex ATL SP/RP 19 125.9 113 49 45 42 119 10 3.22 9 0 1.23 0.86 -0.52 1.10 -0.04 0.89 4 45 0.46 -0.02 Votto, Joey CIN 1B 124 439 83 129 56 98 99 0.293 19 5 0.25 -0.47 -0.49 2.05 0.95 5 55 0.34 -0.02 Estrada, Marco MIL SP 21 5/6/2014 8:37 PM Marco Estrada appears to have hurt himself trying to field a bunt attempt by Ender Inciarte. 127.3 115 55 50 32 121 16 3.56 9 0 1.16 0.61 -0.52 -0.13 1.11 0.65 5 58 0.33 -0.04 Ryu, Hyun-Jin LAD SP 23 149.1 138 61 56 41 119 13 3.37 11 0 1.20 0.73 -0.52 0.53 0.53 0.36 6 63 0.30 -0.07 Salazar, Danny CLE SP 21 119.3 105 49 45 40 128 14 3.41 9 0 1.22 0.48 -0.52 0.37 0.24 0.92 8 85 0.16 0.27 Carpenter, Matt STL 2B/3B 122 5/6/2014 5:33 AM Matt Carpenter went 2-for-4 with a double, two RBI, a run scored and a walk against the Braves on Monday. 501 80 153 50 61 89 0.306 8 3 -1.35 -0.92 -0.66 1.91 1.80 9 101 0.06 -0.42 Belt, Brandon SF 1B 114 418 57 120 61 46 104 0.288 14 5 -0.24 0.42 -0.42 -0.19 0.73 9 104 0.05 0.41 Uehara, Koji BOS RP 55 55.4 41 16 14 10 70 5 2.34 4 27 0.92 -1.84 2.05 0.77 0.87 -1.63 9 106 0.04 -0.17 Heyward, Jason ATL OF 114 462 72 120 47 58 99 0.259 19 9 0.53 -0.97 -0.07 1.53 -0.83 Own Round Rank Value PosV Name Injury Status Team Pos g News AB R H RBI BB K BA HR SB HRV RBIV SBV RV BAV IP H RA ER BB SO HR ERA W SV WHIP WV SVV ERAV WHIPV SOV 10 110 0.01 0.13 Infante, Omar KC 2B 105 435 54 131 53 20 43 0.301 8 6 -1.17 0.08 -0.35 -0.05 1.56 10 118 -0.04 0.32 Perkins, Glen MIN RP 50 5/6/2014 1:05 AM Glen Perkins picked up his eighth save after throwing a perfect 10th inning with two strikeouts against the Indians on Monday. 49.6 37 17 15 13 57 5 2.78 3 26 1.02 -1.85 2.19 0.52 0.62 -1.69 11 124 -0.07 -0.54 Rizzo, Anthony CHC 1B 124 461 65 121 62 55 92 0.263 22 4 0.74 -0.02 -0.53 0.01 -0.55 11 127 -0.08 -0.29 Joyce, Matt TB OF 101 364 53 95 52 52 77 0.260 16 6 0.35 0.15 -0.33 0.14 -0.68 11 128 -0.08 0.29 Nathan, Joe DET RP 58 5/6/2014 12:30 AM Joe Nathan pitches a perfect ninth for his sixth save of the season as the Tigers edge out a 2-0 victory over the Astros on Monday. 56.3 45 21 19 18 61 5 3.08 3 33 1.11 -1.86 2.49 0.34 0.38 -1.74 12 133 -0.10 0.27 Roark, Tanner WAS SP/RP 25 121.4 113 52 48 33 90 11 3.56 9 0 1.20 0.13 -0.52 -0.08 0.40 -0.42 12 137 -0.10 -0.58 Lind, Adam TOR 1B 105 5/6/2014 3:30 PM Adam Lind (back) will play nine innings at 1B Wednesday in the Minor Leagues. He could possibly return Thursday in Toronto. 372 51 101 56 36 79 0.271 17 0 0.48 0.36 -0.86 -0.38 -0.13 12 138 -0.11 0.10 Andrus, Elvis TEX SS 124 500 66 142 52 41 77 0.284 4 29 -1.98 -0.85 1.54 0.19 0.57 13 148 -0.14 -0.62 Hart, Corey SEA 1B 99 368 46 96 56 30 90 0.262 16 4 0.41 0.72 -0.52 -0.70 -0.63 13 150 -0.14 -0.36 Quentin, Carlos SD OF 76 276 36 72 41 28 48 0.259 14 0 0.98 0.47 -0.85 -0.58 -0.74 13 151 -0.15 0.21 Gausman, Kevin BAL SP/RP 16 5/6/2014 10:17 PM Kevin Gausman (focal pneumonia) has been cleared to return to the rotation at Triple-A Norfolk. 91.6 90 41 38 26 83 11 3.71 7 0 1.27 0.43 -0.52 -0.61 -0.51 0.45 14 157 -0.18 0.18 Smyly, Drew DET RP 22 126.6 121 57 52 41 115 14 3.71 9 0 1.28 0.45

mmassmedia  5/6/2014 11:23 PM

Ok so I tried to post my roster with best available above. That didn't work so well. Can someone tell me how to transfer that data here and make it look like a graph. 

I plugged in Trout - Aoki for Votto - Choo and came out .58 ahead if I recall right.

My roster will be

C-Ramos

1st-Belt

2nd-Carpenter

3rd-Machado

SS-Andrus

OF- Trout - Beltran - (Gardner,Revere,???) Platton for the 3rd spot

Util - Rizzo(1b) Arenado(3rd)

Still have roster space for 2 pickups - As well my SP goes Kershaw, Bumgardner, Lee, A.Wood, Ryu, Estrada with 3 quality closers and J.Smith who is lingering now.

This would be the lineup if I made the Choo-Votto for Trout trade.

ken_admin  5/7/2014 6:45 AM

When pasting in your team, you'll need to use a browser other than IE (Firefox or Chrome seem to work best).

descender  5/7/2014 11:59 AM

mbuser - It's not necessarily that "Trout is more valuable in H2H", but in this situation adding Trout at the expense of a Votto isn't going to help him that much.  Not nearly as much as trading some of his excess pitching value would.  If Trout has 1 crazy week in your H2H playoffs, the entire trade could be worth it... but in Roto your entire team balance is more important than acquiring any individual player (I think).

It's something that's slightly misleading about the "value" column in general I feel.  Just getting the "highest value" guy translates more directly to H2H leagues.  Roto is a bit more complicated than that.

Simply put... He has great pitching strength, and little offensive power.  He could easily spare one of Bumgarner/Lee/Kershaw, and if he can get 2 comparable bats for them... that should be a no brainer upgrade.  You need to win as many categories as possible in Roto, where as in H2H you just merely have to win more than half of them.

liam4  5/7/2014 4:24 PM

I don't know, descender, I play roto and always target the Durant/Trout types.  Total value helps you across all categories, and while balance is important, I'm not sure Trout for Votto affects balance and its a huge upgrade from an overall value perspective.

descender  5/9/2014 11:07 AM

Liam I was really talking in reference to this guys actual team.  

Obviously Trout is a good player, but he has a pitching Value over 4 and a negative Offense value (.6 active, woo!).  How is trading Votto for Trout going to get him anywhere?  His strongest categories are already Runs, AVG and SB's, so replacing Votto with Trout will have EVEN LESS impact!

This is what I meant by losing focus on the individual categories in Roto.  You can't just blindly add a higher "overall value" player and expect good results.  There is a huge difference between targeting a Trout type player in the draft, and trading for him to plug holes in your team.  

I have tried combining the team analysis page (and projected standings) into category weights in the past to push the overall player values in the direction of my actual team needs.  It helps for targeting FA pickups or trades. The site itself doesn't seem to take your team needs into account directly.  A tool like this would be really handy *cough*... :)